User talk:Quondum
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What's the difference between 1.024 ms and 1024 us?[edit]
I didn't understand this edit Dondervogel 2 (talk) 15:56, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
- The text said
- The IEEE 802.11-1999 standard introduces the binary time unit TU defined as 1024 μs (10−6 Kis).
- The parenthesis and the inclusion in the article suggest that it is relevant to the prefix 'Ki'. It seems unlikely that the IEEE standard used that prefix in that context. The source uses "kilo-microseconds"/"1 kμs", evidently with "kilo"/"k" in the binary sense and "micro"/"μ" in the decimal sense, without mentioning "kibi"/"Ki". The origin of 1024 μs is presumably the binary divider ratio from 1 MHz in hardware as an approximation of 1 ms, but that has no reason to be associated with a prefix in that context. Unless we are trying to claim that the source used "k" in the binary sense here (in which case the mention of an IEEE standard is misleading), what is the point of the statement in the article?
- If I am wrong, and the IEEE standard does use the prefix "kilo"/"kibi"/"k"/"Ki" in the binary sense here, we should cite the standard, not the source used. But I would be rather surprised if this were the case. —Quondum 16:55, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
- From your reply, I conclude that the standard is indeed using the prefix "k" in the binary sense. Isn't that reason enough to keep the example, albeit with better wording? I see that in the meantime your edit was reverted by another editor. Dondervogel 2 (talk) 17:33, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
- The article IEEE 802.11 (legacy mode) says "IEEE 802.11-1999 also introduced the binary time unit TU defined as 1024 μs." This makes sense aside from the use of the word "binary", which does not occur in the source. I have serious doubts that IEEE used any form of binary prefix in its definition of the TU, however. The source uses its prefixes in an unforgivingly mangled and confusing way that IMO never would have been included in a standard. So unless someone has access to the text of the standard, I do not think that the source's manner of expression should be attributed to the standard. The parenthesis was added here, presumably intended as clarification, but introducing the presumably unwarranted implication that "Kis" was similarly in the IEEE definition of the TU, but without citing the IEEE standard. Without the parenthesis and this implication, the statement "The IEEE 802.11-1999 standard introduces the [binary] time unit TU defined as 1024 μs", seems to be devoid of relevance to the article Timeline of binary prefixes. What am I missing? —Quondum 18:26, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
- I think the relevance arises from statements like "One Kµsec equals 1,024 microseconds" Dondervogel 2 (talk) 19:04, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
- That is an example of 'K' being used to mean kilobinary (in compound with SI prefixes – ugh). If you wish, this could be listed as an example of the use of the binary 'K' in 2009. I don't see it as a case for listing it in 1999. —Quondum 19:31, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
- Shall we move our exchange to the article talk page to see what others think? Dondervogel 2 (talk) 20:33, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
- It probably makes sense. Not everyone's brain works the same way as mine. If you feel this will be useful input to a wider discussion, feel free to move it. —Quondum 20:46, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
- I copied the relevant part. I didn't delete anything in case you wish to archive this one. Dondervogel 2 (talk) 21:12, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
- I forgot to thank you for an honest exchange of views. It is always a pleasure to debate with you. Thank you! Dondervogel 2 (talk) 21:15, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you. I always appreciate when someone is open to balanced discussion (as you are). I'm actually wondering whether it is wise for me to be considering contributing to this topic, even now. —Quondum 21:47, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
- It probably makes sense. Not everyone's brain works the same way as mine. If you feel this will be useful input to a wider discussion, feel free to move it. —Quondum 20:46, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
- Shall we move our exchange to the article talk page to see what others think? Dondervogel 2 (talk) 20:33, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
- That is an example of 'K' being used to mean kilobinary (in compound with SI prefixes – ugh). If you wish, this could be listed as an example of the use of the binary 'K' in 2009. I don't see it as a case for listing it in 1999. —Quondum 19:31, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
- I think the relevance arises from statements like "One Kµsec equals 1,024 microseconds" Dondervogel 2 (talk) 19:04, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
- The article IEEE 802.11 (legacy mode) says "IEEE 802.11-1999 also introduced the binary time unit TU defined as 1024 μs." This makes sense aside from the use of the word "binary", which does not occur in the source. I have serious doubts that IEEE used any form of binary prefix in its definition of the TU, however. The source uses its prefixes in an unforgivingly mangled and confusing way that IMO never would have been included in a standard. So unless someone has access to the text of the standard, I do not think that the source's manner of expression should be attributed to the standard. The parenthesis was added here, presumably intended as clarification, but introducing the presumably unwarranted implication that "Kis" was similarly in the IEEE definition of the TU, but without citing the IEEE standard. Without the parenthesis and this implication, the statement "The IEEE 802.11-1999 standard introduces the [binary] time unit TU defined as 1024 μs", seems to be devoid of relevance to the article Timeline of binary prefixes. What am I missing? —Quondum 18:26, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
- From your reply, I conclude that the standard is indeed using the prefix "k" in the binary sense. Isn't that reason enough to keep the example, albeit with better wording? I see that in the meantime your edit was reverted by another editor. Dondervogel 2 (talk) 17:33, 29 May 2024 (UTC)